April 6, 2013
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STOP INSULTING YOUR INTELLIGENCE!!!
At The Very Least Stop Insulting MINE!!
"...the body of genetic determinism needs to be laid to rest. Whether you hate homosexuals or whether you love them, whether you want to lock them up or 'cure' them your reasons had better have nothing to do with genes. Rather admit to prejudiced emotion than speciously drag in genes where they do not belong."
~ Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion
There is no valid scientific evidence that human beings are born gay, and there isn't any proving humans are born straight either. Biology simply can't account for the complexities in the variety of human sexual proclivities, behaviors, and appetites. Actually @mikewb1971 did a recent post with this terrible old question:
"If the biotech and medical fields were to devise some sort of prenatal test, accurate to 99 percent, that could determine whether the baby-to-be was going to be heterosexual or homosexual, would it then be acceptable to abort that baby if it turned out to be homosexual?"
It's a question I've always refused to even consider answering. I don't like having my intelligence insulted, and I especially hate to be a part of insulting my own intelligence. But actually the question can be made to show how completely insulting the question is to anyone's intelligence. Now, Let's follow the logic behind the unspoken supposition at the heart of the question. "If the biotech and medical fields were to devise a prenatal test, accurate to 99%, that could determine hetero or homo?" Well if such a prenatal test could be devised to discover sexual orientation then one could be devised to discover if a child would become an Olympic Champion. By the same token a determinative test could be devised to tell us if a child would grow up to be a taxi cab driver or a ditch digger. Donald Trump would love that last test. He could abort any child who couldn't be expected to earn a billion bucks before age 30. Michael Phelps could influence his significant other to abort, if his soon to be born son, weren't going to be an Olympic Champion swimmer. Has your intelligence been sufficiently insulted yet?? WELCOME TO MY WORLD!!! Every time some loud mouthed moron starts spouting off about sexual orientation being biologically determined my face starts melting off.Why is it science will never...NEVER, EVER, IN A TRILLION YEARS, come up with a test to tell Michael Phelps his son will or will not become an Olympic Champion swimmer??? Biology cannot dictate what happens to any individual after birth. Biology cannot pick social, cultural, religious, and etc. environments, diet/nutrition, and other environmental factors. Biology cannot decide if a person will be molested, starved, horse whipped, kicked repeatedly, or any other good or bad behavior perpetrated by other persons in the family of extended social environment. Now let's get really stupid with this whole, "What if a test for "stupid favorite cause of the day," were devised??
"What if the biotech and medical fields devised a test which could have told Larry Flynt's parents, with 99% accuracy, that he would publish porn, and then in middle age become a paraplegic due to a failed assassination attempt? Do you suppose they would have aborted little Larry?"
Are you getting the point, or shall I treat you like a completely empty headed mannequin?? BIOLOGY CANNOT DETERMINE COMPLEX HUMAN INTERACTIONS, RELATIONSHIPS, ACCIDENTS, ACTS OF GOD, AND OTHER SITUATIONS WHICH CAN POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY IMPACT DEVELOPING HUMAN MINDS. Biology determines that humans will develop sexuality, but biology cannot determine how we will chose to express or not express that sexuality. The body of a 5 year old boy does not send out pheromones to molesters within a 100 mile radius, so that child later develops a twisted way of expressing his sexuality. There is no Gene Gestapo forcing boys to blow boy, and girls to lick girls. "Ve haf waisss off making you homo!!! SIEG HEIL!!" Sorry, hate to burst bubbles, but there are far too many non-biological factors at work around us, which effect how we experience our worlds, and how we project ourselves into our world. Biology sets a very broad stage for each of us, full of potential, but it cannot, alone, make you straight or gay. The proper; right; correct; legitimate; questions to ask have always been:
"How much is intrauterine and how much is extrauterine? How much is genes and how much is family/social environment? How much is choice and how much is forced? How much is hormonal and how much is exposure to any number of negative and positive, productive and traumatic experiences?"
THOSE are the questions science might actually be able to come up with answers for, but the most often asked question, "Aren't people born gay," is a BULLSHIT question, which cannot be answered by science.
Biology does actually narrow the field of possibilities for us sexually. All of us are born with a sex drive, and not simply a sex drive, but a drive to propagate the race. How do we know this? 7,000,000,000 humans and counting. 96.5% of the population falls into the "hetro" category. Just like the drive in humans to survive can be overcome, by a small percentage who commit suicide each year, so a small percentage overcome the procreative drive. What is far more important and, frankly, more interesting is why humans deviate from the hetro norm. I accepted, a looooong time ago, that there are people who will never even attempt to step away from their gay identity, and I have always been fine with that. What is wrong is the expectation that everyone toe the gay line, for life. I can't tell you the number of people who desire, desperately, to escape a homosexual identity which has become a hated trap. I'm not talking about going around forcing people into therapy. The people who are fine with their identity should be given every opportunity to pursue what the Declaration of Independence says they have the right to pursue: the search for happiness. (Of course I'm speaking to my fellow Americans when I talk about the Declaration of Independence). But those who want to explore leaving a gay identity behind should also be given every opportunity to pursue their search for happiness. No life is perfect, but I can say, from my own life experience as a self identified gay man, that I am much happier after quitting the style of life I began pursuing in the first half of my life. I would not return to homosexuality for any reason at this point in my life. The road of my life has, very often, been a painful and difficult one, but I am better for those experiences. If you are fine with your sexual preference then I'm fine with it too. Please extend the same courtesy to those of us, who did/do not like the direction our sexuality points.
I FEEL BETTER! If you don't, I honestly don't care. Please don't waste anymore of my time insulting my intelligence. Accept the facts or don't. If you don't want to accept the facts, run along and whine about it on your own blog... This is, AFTER ALL, my site.
Comments (14)
Another excellent post on this subject, L
Thank you. I'm quite tired of people saying that your sexual preferences are the same thing as your skin color. I'm sorry but no. Whereas people's sexual tastes/preferences can change, your skin color never changes. It is determined and fixed in your genes. Sexual orientation is not.
I hate that question. I truly believe some are both born gay and some develop it for whatever reasons. There is not one exact contributor that can pinpoint every single homosexual person's development or even pre-determined factors. If anyone can answer what makes them heterosexual then mabye, they would be qualified to answer the other. None of us here seem to be God so I'm not sure we have the adequate answers. And sometimes I wonder if even God knows...
@kuai_le1011 - I honestly don't know how to respond to your comment. I spent a decade searching, desperately, for the biological cause of my homosexuality. Sexual orientation is not biologically determined. This isn't a matter for "belief", not when the facts have settled the matter. As the atheist Evolutionary Biologist, Richard Dawkins says... "Rather admit prejudiced emotion than speciously drag in genes where they do not belong." "Speciously" means, "It sounds and looks good, but the appearance only covers for what is false. Dawkins is an expert in such matters, he is an atheist, and has no horse in this race, as it were. There is no smoking biological gun, and that is the fact. Biology has it's roll, but it is not a deterministic roll.
All I can suggest is that you take the time to study how genes and hormones work, and how they are sometimes drastically influenced by the world outside our bodies. No one is born to commit suicide, and no one is born gay. Michael Phelps was not born an Olympic Champion swimmer. Those are the facts.
@firetyger - You are welcome!! Thanks for the support!
@Such_are_you - There are so many people I wish I could have read this. Unfortunately they aren't on Xanga.
@firetyger - Cut, paste, email! Easy peezy lemon squeezy
@Such_are_you - I was agreeing with you. It is a bullshit question. I have known boys that from the time they were very young were already quite intrigued by men and I can't honestly tell you why.
(Michael Phelps was not born a swimmer but he did have the genetic makeup that provided him with a lean build, long arms and long legs that are perfect for swimming.) My basic point being that I don't feel that we know exactly what it is that causes the preference one way or another. I can no more tell you why I'm straight than why one can determine why they are attracted to their same sex. Until that day, I am leaving myself open to the idea that for every single homosexual person, it could a different factor. I don't want to be dogmatic on something that is not concrete to any of us.
Oh, and biological determinism is the question of nature vs. nurture so when you spoke of biology, it was confusing to me at first.
@Such_are_you - Would you like me to put a link back to here or something to leave you with credit? I was thinking about maybe copying this and pasting it as a FB note.
@kuai_le1011 - You say:
"(Michael Phelps was not born a swimmer but he
did have the genetic makeup that provided him with a lean build, long
arms and long legs that are perfect for swimming.)"
Actually it is Phelps' long torso which showed his potential. It is strong upper body strength which makes for strong swimmers. When Phelps started swimming no one knew he'd develop long legs. The long legs do give him a bit of an edge, but nearly so much as the long torso.
Were it possible to take my 9 year-old self and place me beside a 9 year-old Phelps our body proportions would be almost exactly the same. Biology gave me the same long torso prized in champion swimmers (Though not the legs). I have never swum competitively, so, as I say in the post, "biology sets the stage," but that is hardly deterministic. Genes gave Phelps the right body type sought after in champion swimmers (gave me the same body type), but it is what Phelps does with his body and what others encouraged him to do, which has dictated his behavior.
Genes work for sexuality in humans the same way they work for the development of spoken language. Our genes make it possible for us to develop language, but genes cannot dictate the language we will speak. I was born an American, but had I been born in America, and then raised in France with only the French language and culture would I still speak English, or would I speak French? I'd speak French. Genes cannot dictate that because my body was born to English speaking parents in America that I would speak English. Biology has it's influence, but it cannot dictate the language I'll speak. Biology dictates that I will develop sexuality, but biology cannot dictate how I will express that sexuality.
You say you've seen boys who were interested in men from and early age. My story looks like that as well. biology gave me an ENFP temperament type. I had the least developed sense of self as a young child. My father neglected me, and I had an uncle who tormented me. "I felt different." Darryl Bem from Columbia University explained how "I felt different," works. Some people feel they are on the outside of their own gender. They don't feel they fit, so the same-sex is seen as "exotic". After puberty what is exotic becomes erotic. Now there is a lot more to understanding the exotic becoming erotic, but it absolutely explains the roots of where I come from. As I have interacted with people dealing with same-sex attraction the same, "I feel different" is always one of the root factors. It isn't biology which made me feel different. What made me feel different was being forced to endure two males who abused and neglected, respectively. Still, in all of that it is both nature and nurture, but neither individually can account for same-sex attraction.
You do not yet have enough understanding to grasp fully what I'm talking about, and that's alright. I took the time to learn the facts. The only thing I can suggest is you take time to learn about the matter. I always suggest an excellent book by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, titled,
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth
. It was written in the late 90's so some of it is a little out of date, but he does an excellent job with the biology part of things.
@firetyger - You can post it as a facebook note if you like, but you can't leave any kind of link, or use my name. I've always got my feelers out for new job opportunities, and this kind of thing could tank my chances of landing new jobs.
@Such_are_you - Ah, gotcha. I will refrain from using that then
One of these days, I'm just gonna go apeshit on this blog and read top to bottom for a couple of hours. This is the kind of material only a juxtaposition of unique life experiences and a sharp mind can produce. I've got an exam tomorrow or I'd start now haha
@jamskahler - This one of only a few posts I've done on this matter. I used to have a Xanga pretty much devoted to presenting homosexuality in it's true light to gays, ex-gays, Christians, atheists and anyone else who dared present a baseless opinion on the matter. It got too ugly, and I shut it down. You aren't going to find what you are looking for, so I'll save you the time.
The best resource I can offer you is one of my favorite books on the subject. Everything it took me a decade to learn, is in this book. I recently downloaded the book to my Kindle reader for $14 or $15 from Amazon.
It's called
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth
, by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. It was written in the late 90's so some of the material is a bit dated, but the science is dead on target. You'd be doing me a great favor to get it and read it, and encourage others to read it.
@jamskahler - OKAY...so my latest blog might be the kind of thing you might find interesting. Give it a look when you get the chance, and then let me know if you found it helpful.